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Post by dave1800 on Mar 4, 2014 8:16:05 GMT
No idea, I only owned an automatic for a very short period of time and never took it apart. I would have thought that as the auto-box was designed for this engine, financially it would have made sense to keep the engine block the same. But maybe that would have been too sensible. David I thought the autos have a different block bottom compared to the manual to mate to the gearbox? Andrew
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Post by indianajones on Mar 4, 2014 8:18:29 GMT
Yeah I thought the same thing, but I was told that one can't simply convert an auto to a manual, and I think the block was mentioned. I'm sure someone else here would know.
I owned an auto for a very short period too, just wasn't the same as the manual, but on the plus side, I could actually use the arm rests while driving.
Andrew
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Post by Nick RS on Mar 4, 2014 18:31:29 GMT
My data only goes up to 1969 though it includes 18H engines which seem to come in during 1968. The UK built units have a number like 18H 123B H12345 and the second group alway has a three digit code. Yours is either later or not UK. I checked the Australian parts list on the 1800 site but the codes weren't like yours there either. Needs a bit more digging, if anyone has later parts listing that would help, mine is issue 5, 1969.
Nick
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Post by indianajones on Mar 4, 2014 19:29:56 GMT
I guess the question I have is, does it really matter? (i.e. I imagine the engines have very little differences between them if any?) I did a bit of googling on the cylinder head and it seems that it's a standard UK/Aussie head, the yanks seem to refer to them as 'non-smog' ones, which I'm guessing the US export ones had different heads to meet the emission requirements etc At the end of the day, as long as I can slap that head onto the engine, I'm a happy chap. -Indy
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Post by indianajones on Mar 8, 2014 9:30:16 GMT
Crank is out As is the camshaft A couple of the tappets are showing wear, so will need to replace them. -Andrew
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Post by dave1800 on Mar 8, 2014 10:36:56 GMT
It looks as though the camshaft is well worn, and that tappet is horrendous! You would be well advised to fit a complete new set of tappets with the new / reprofiled camshaft never fit old ones unless absolutely perfect. Be careful some of the camshafts available now are not properly hardened and wear badly; Google the video of John Twist to see what I mean. Depending on how you decide to rebuild the engine look at the options for the tappets and pushrods. Later tappets were not so deep so lighter and required different pushrods. Regards David Crank is out As is the camshaft A couple of the tappets are showing wear, so will need to replace them. -Andrew
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Post by indianajones on Mar 8, 2014 11:58:28 GMT
I'll get the camshaft inspected when I hand the block over, I thought it looked ok, going by some awful looking ones from the net. I'll have it repaired / replaced if needed, no point doing it half-arsed if I'm going to this much trouble _b Also, tappets will all be replaced for peace of mind -Andrew
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Post by tommydp on Mar 8, 2014 16:34:53 GMT
Well done Andrew!
I'm watching with interest, as I'm thinking of stripping and rebuiling a block myself. You won't find new standard 1800 cams, unless you're really lucky. I'd go for a high quality standard MGB cam. As Dave says, there are lots of bad quality cams around.
Make sure you know what cam you get, and have it timed correctly. Ask me how I know:-) In the end I went back to a slightly worn standard cam, rather than the very hot cam which turned out to be installed one tooth out.. I got hold of a standard MGB cam later, which was as new. I'm thinking of using it with twin 1 1/4 carbs once.
Tommy
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Post by indianajones on Mar 8, 2014 23:22:50 GMT
Cheers Tommy, Why don't you start now? it's the perfect project to keep you busy for a couple hours a day I didn't realise there were so many different cams for the 1800 B series (I just assumed they used the same type), I reckon I'll end up getting an MGB one from the local MG specialist here in NZ, which will cost around $400NZD off the top of my head. For this engine I am certainly thinking of running it with twin carbs (unsure of size/type at this stage). Sort of Downton conversion style etc. It seems that the most cost effective mod for more power is to bore the engine out (1950cc seems to be the standard in the MGB crowd, but I wouldn't go that far), has anyone done that to their 'crab? here or in the LOCI? What are the pitfalls and/or risks of doing so? -Andrew
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Post by dave1800 on Mar 9, 2014 1:27:15 GMT
Andrew it's worth reading about camshaft installation and the importance of breaking them in or they can be damaged the very first time you start the engine. Your tappet picture shows what can happen; I've never seen one anything like that in any of my 1800 engines, just slight pitting and any at all is too much! There is plenty of advice on the internet for example Piper Cams (which I have used). new camshaft advice Modern oils with the zinc removed make this really critical nowadays whereas you could more or less get away with it in the past. Remember the camshaft is the heart of the engine and getting this right is imperative for a fine running engine. I've only ever bored out to +60thou and it was difficult to determine the difference due to the increase in capacity v the improvements from the rest of the changes but you may be able to find some comparative power figures by wading through MGB websites. Undoubtedly higher capacity will bring the potential of more power if you get the cam, timing and fuelling right, but the downside is that you are at the engine's limit so sleeves are necessary if it needs further rebuilding and may have to play around with different needles and distributor settings. Have you considered using vernier timing gears which would allow you to change the advance or retard of the camshaft timing? This allows you to push the power curve up or down the rev range giving better bottom end or better top end performance. The 1800 engine is quite sensitive to these adjustments and I think is a worthwhile investment. Regards David Cheers Tommy, Why don't you start now? it's the perfect project to keep you busy for a couple hours a day I didn't realise there were so many different cams for the 1800 B series (I just assumed they used the same type), I reckon I'll end up getting an MGB one from the local MG specialist here in NZ, which will cost around $400NZD off the top of my head. For this engine I am certainly thinking of running it with twin carbs (unsure of size/type at this stage). Sort of Downton conversion style etc. It seems that the most cost effective mod for more power is to bore the engine out (1950cc seems to be the standard in the MGB crowd, but I wouldn't got that far), has anyone done that to their 'crab? here or in the LOCI? What are the pitfalls and/or risks of doing so? -Andrew
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Post by dave1800 on Mar 24, 2014 9:54:25 GMT
Andrew You were asking about boring out to 1950cc and the pitfalls. Here is a quote from Peter Burgess' website that answers your question. I knew I had seen it somewhere! Burgess Engines Just click the engine pic on the left hand side of the screen. I have copied the text below: Regards David From Peter Burgess Website
"Engine Capacity It is tempting to build all engines to 1950 cm3; however, the thinness of the bores tends to allow bore flex and lozenging which in turn tends to allow the engine to burn oil. This can be overcome to an extent with the use of Race Quality pistons, with thin, light piston rings. The cost, of around £450 per set is also a consideration. Which is fine for Race use. For Road use we recommend +60 thou overbore to give a capacity of 1867 cm3. The increased bore size enhances midrange power, producing a crisp, sharp, free revving engine. All our MGB engines are fitted with liners, this increases bhp and reliability. Cylinder Head and Camshaft If you are intending to use the car for Motorway/Highway cruising and the engine is unlikely to run past 4700-4900 rpm, an Econotune cylinder head and a standard camshaft combination will produce plenty of low rpm and mid rpm torque, making a smooth powerful unit that 'goes better' when you put your foot down uphill without having to change down a gear. For a more spirited performance whilst still retaining perfect town manners, the Fast Road cylinder head and the Piper HR270 camshaft combination works well. Having a smooth power delivery from idle to around 5600rpm. If you intend using the car for Track Test Days, Fast Road use, occasional Sprint/Autotesting, the Fast Road cylinder head and Piper HR285 camshaft combination is the ideal starting point. The idle is slightly rough/loping, becoming smooth at around 1300 rpm under light throttle. The engine will pull smoothly to just under 3000 rpm....then it lets rip to 6000 rpm with copious amounts of power and torque. The exhaust system could be changed for a larger bore, single box-type to enhance the power. The camshaft is capable of producing even more power with a change to either 1 3/4" SU's or a 45 Weber. The engine will rev freely to around 6500 rpm. We only use billet, cross drilled camshafts. Typical cost of an 1867cm3 engine with Fast Road head is £2150 plus vat exhange." Cheers Tommy, It seems that the most cost effective mod for more power is to bore the engine out (1950cc seems to be the standard in the MGB crowd, but I wouldn't go that far), has anyone done that to their 'crab? here or in the LOCI? What are the pitfalls and/or risks of doing so? -Andrew
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Post by indianajones on Mar 24, 2014 19:45:26 GMT
Thanks for that David,
I did a little bit of thinking and reading on the boring out, and it seems that the 1950cc is really on the limits for the engine.
The +60 thou overbore you quoted sounds ideal for me, a nice torquey mid-range engine is what I'd prefer. Something that's good for around town, but also has a bit of puff still on the hills. Not really interested in top end HP/speed.
Haven't been able to do anything with the engine yet, have been rather busy and have had other things to pay for (a single income isn't much fun).
-Andrew
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