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Post by dave1800 on Mar 5, 2013 2:06:17 GMT
Now I look at Nick's pic more closely I can see all the bracket, must change my computer screen, specs or brain or all three Nice photo Chris! Regards David Amazing what can be seen without an engine in the way. Same fitting as mine - you can see the bracket more clearly here. Chris.
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Post by Nick RS on Apr 23, 2013 20:00:06 GMT
I haven't given much of an update recently. Life with the Wosleley has been fairly uneventful but in a good way. The current drain has not reappeared and the car springs to life much better these days thanks to a new Bosch 096 battery which ought to be up to the task of operating all the gizmos I have.
I went on my first journey of any distance to the Pride of Longbridge event on 13th April and met up with some friends. They all own modern MGF/TFs and had the misfortune to be allocated a slot near the Rover 25 owner who's stereo had a bigger engine than his car - unlucky to say the least. I think I was the first Landcrab there but another Wolseley appeared just as I was setting up to park so I had company. That was the theme for the day really. I have worked motorshows many times before and made sure that I engaged with people who looked at my car and had a great time to swapping stories about both the cars and the factory. I just had to remember I wasn't selling. I didn't get time to take photos but there are loads of the event on Flickr if you want to look. I think in the end there were about ten crabs and one lobster present, not all parked together though. I also got to meet some members of LOCI who were very welcoming; one of them bought a Six that I had looked at last year during my buying phase. By 2.00pm it was raining and most folks were leaving. There weren't many older cars on the M42 motorway and I settled down to a 60mph trip home. I almost wish my tyres were worn so that I could replace them with the correct size and drop the rpm.
The car is idling too fast so that is the next little job, I think I need to check vacuum connections and tappets if the literature is correct.
Last weekend I used the car again for all the local chores, like going to B&Q in Coventry. It's great to use the car as a normal day to day vehicle and it always surprises people who see it. However I didn't even manage the four feet that Chris did on Drive it Day; took the children for a bike ride instead.
Nick
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Post by Nick RS on May 7, 2013 21:28:23 GMT
www.flickr.com/photos/95554091@N03/8717714317/Have just signed up to Flickr to see if uploading photos to here works better than the proboards system. Chris, I know you have posted how to upload photos from sites like Flickr somewhere on here but i can't find it. Any chance of a re-cap? These last few weeks I have been using the car a lot and it seems to thrive on it. I am also working my way through the annual service items bit by bit. Coolant change and radiator flush at the weekend along with the valve clearances. Spark plugs came out looking good apart from a little soot on No2. It's idling too fast though and I've backed off the idle screw as far as I can. Reading the web it looks as though vacuum or an air leak could be responsible - any ideas? It also has a tendency to run-on. It made me late leaving the garden centre the other day but it was nice late; people came up wanting to look at car and talk about it. Probably happens to all of us but good all the same. Nick
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Post by Penguin45 on May 8, 2013 0:17:03 GMT
Hi Nick - posting pics comment noted; I will deal with it. Had a go with flickr and I'm not really getting on with it - gone back to Photobucket which sort of works once you get your head round the new system. Keef is a bit of an afficianado of flickr, so might be able to tell you how to get the best out of it. Not using a car is probably the worst thing that can be done to it, so driving it is great. Glad you're enjoying it - they are great fun to drive. I was at Chatsworth House last Sunday with the Wolseley Owners Club - a really nice, involved drive down as I had a bit of time and went up over the moors. Radiator problem meant a steady plod back up the motorway, though, on the way back. If the idle won't drop, you're running either way too rich (Have a look at the plugs - 2 + 3 will be blacker than 1 + 4) or the timing is off. David has spent a great deal of time bashing this through my thick skull . 12 degrees BTDC is the datum to start from. Running on is a classic timing problem. Chris.
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Post by kelsham on May 8, 2013 7:58:46 GMT
I find my car runs on if the tickover is too high, it's as simple as that. High tickover could be an air leak on the manifold joints.I would start looking there.
Kels
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Post by dave1800 on May 8, 2013 8:40:41 GMT
It's also worth checking that the butterfly closes completely when the throttle adjusting screw is turned anti-clockwise and that the cable isn't holding it open slightly. There should be a little slack before it operates. Also check the fast idle/choke screw has the correct clearance and the choke cable isn't stopping it from returning fully. Regards David I find my car runs on if the tickover is too high, it's as simple as that. High tickover could be an air leak on the manifold joints.I would start looking there. Kels
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Post by Nick RS on May 8, 2013 20:34:52 GMT
Good points well made which will form the checklist for this weekend hopefully. Kels, I am generally overcoming the running on by making sure that I switch off the ignition just after parking up with the car out of gear, yet before the revs rise too much, it seems to do the trick. I hope that when I manage to sort out the fast idling that it more or less cures it. I hasten to add that I would never stall the engine to stop it - too much stress (on me and the car) I'm hoping it is not the ignition as I am rather regarding the 123 setup that I have as a sealed unit at the moment. I check the other bits first. Nick PS another attempt at yesterday's picture loading now follows hey-hey !
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Post by dave1800 on May 9, 2013 4:49:03 GMT
Hi Nick It's easy enough to check the 123 ignition timing. Just use a timing light and ensure that the advance accords with the spec for the (high) idle rpm. If not check out the (MG?) manual at www.123ignition.nl/downloads/manuals/ The 123 ignition curves can be found at www.mintylamb.co.uk/123ign.html(Assuming you have the standard unit and not the "Tune" version with which you set up your own advance curves) At idle increasing the advance (within reason) will raise the rpm. It only takes a couple of minutes to check the timing so quickly discounted. Too weak a mixture will result in a low idle that improves as the engine heats up and too rich a mixture will often show as an idle that falls with engine temperature. What are the characteristics of your fast idle - does it get worse when hot? Regards David I'm hoping it is not the ignition as I am rather regarding the 123 setup that I have as a sealed unit at the moment. I check the other bits first. Nick
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Post by Nick RS on May 9, 2013 19:41:25 GMT
David, Thanks for the advice and links. I had already downloaded the manual for the generic British 4 cylinder version though I am not 100% sure which one I have. The original car spec says 12BTDC @ 600rpm. Is this what I am looking for or should i be referring to whatever curve the 123 may have been set up on? Forgive my ignorance, I really am starting from scratch with this. I don't even own a timing lamp (another trip to Machine Mart calls)
The idle seems to be pretty steady once the engine is warmed up, if anything it gets a little faster but not much.
Nick
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Post by Penguin45 on May 9, 2013 20:10:46 GMT
Chris the Painter has a 123 on his MGB and settled on the "C" curve.
Chris.
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Post by dave1800 on May 10, 2013 2:29:48 GMT
Before using a timing light you can take off the distributor cap and check that the led can be seen through the hole in the timing disc when the engine is rotated so that the TDC timing pointer and the notch on the crankshaft pulley align. If they don't rotate the engine until the led can be seen and make a note of the position of the pulley notch in relation to the timing marks eg 5 degrees advance. Chris, I see your friend has settled on advance curve 3 and all of the standard curves settle on 10 degrees at 1000rpm so the idle won't be affected by the choice of curves. The 123 site suggests the static timing FOR THEIR UNIT to be set at TDC for later MGBs. Is this what your friend does? I do find this a little confusing as the w/s manual for the 1800 indicates 12 degrees at 600 rpm and if my maths are correct this would mean around 13-14 degrees at 1000rpm. Of course what is really important is that the maximum advance is not exceeded as no engine damage will occur by wrong timing at idle but will at high rpm and load. The 41234 25D distributor used on many Mk11 cars means 26 degrees plus static of 9 degrees ie 35 degrees maximum - all figures with the distributor vacuum advance pipe disconnected (and plugged to avoid an air leak). Hope this isn't too confusing! Maybe when you get the timing light just make a note of the idle rpm when hot and the ignition advance, plus the position when the led can be seen (para 1 above) and report back here and we'll take it from there. Regards David David, Thanks for the advice and links. I had already downloaded the manual for the generic British 4 cylinder version though I am not 100% sure which one I have. The original car spec says 12BTDC @ 600rpm. Is this what I am looking for or should i be referring to whatever curve the 123 may have been set up on? Forgive my ignorance, I really am starting from scratch with this. I don't even own a timing lamp (another trip to Machine Mart calls) The idle seems to be pretty steady once the engine is warmed up, if anything it gets a little faster but not much. Nick
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Post by Nick RS on May 11, 2013 16:26:40 GMT
Thank you David, I checked it today and the green LED comes on around 12 degrees which isn't what i was expecting from reading the 123 instruction sheet. I won't mess with it any further until I get myself a strobe timer. Nick
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Post by dave1800 on May 12, 2013 1:26:21 GMT
As you are using a MGB advance curve, I would have thought that the distributor should be set so you see the green light around 3 degrees BTDC instead of TDC. It appears you may have 11 degrees too much advance. Is the engine a bit sluggish on the starter motor? This amount of over advance would make it very difficult to get the idle speed correct - it would run too fast. Agreed, don't do anything until you have a timing light, preferably one with a dial. In the meantime I would advise keeping the rpm down and not driving hard up hills. Regards David UpdateI've looked at the 123 forum and a few other sites and a number of others have had similar issues when using the 123 in a car not specified or with modified engines. As I see it, the MGB should be set so that the green led is visible at TDC. However, the MGB having twin carbs, a hotter cam and free flow manifold requires less advance than the 1800. As I mentioned earlier I think the correct initial setting for you is 3-4 degrees btdc. I have looked at the MGB curves and curve 3 as used by Chris' friend on his MGB gives too little advance at the top end which may reduce top end power and increase fuel consumption and may run a little hot. However there is a distributor 41234 quoted for the MGB and curve number 9. This distributor was used on 1800s from 1968 and is very similar to the later 45D4 units used until 1975. I would be tempted to use this curve if it not already set. Again when you have checked it out, a reminder to check the maximum advance with the vacuum plugged just to be sure. Thank you David, I checked it today and the green LED comes on around 12 degrees which isn't what i was expecting from reading the 123 instruction sheet. I won't mess with it any further until I get myself a strobe timer. Nick
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Post by Nick RS on May 13, 2013 18:22:04 GMT
Bought myself a timing lamp and hooked it up this evening. The picture shows what I think are quite ragged looking timing marks or at least not at all like those in the manuals. Just to give you the geography the green paint is the bottom of the radiator housing. At idle the mark was close to the pointer at the back (on the left) which I am guessing is 0 degrees. Trying to align to this with the dial gave me about 3BTDC and increasing the revs saw the timing marks move clockwise way from the timing marks. I wasn't expecting this and as you can probably tell I don't really know what I am doing. Nick
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Post by dave1800 on May 14, 2013 1:06:58 GMT
Hi Nick To avoid any ambiguity in describing left and right when viewing from the back of the pulley, the crankshaft rotates clockwise as viewed from the front of the engine (ie next to radiator). This means that the first pointer (in the left of your photo as viewed from the rear of the pulley) is 15 degrees BTDC ie advanced. The last pointer ie the one on the right as viewed from the rear in your photo is 0 degrees ie TDC. The TDC pointer may be slightly longer than the others. I believe that your reading of 3 degrees is therefore 12 degrees which is correct, but doesn't accord with the 123 set up instructions unless maybe you have a 123 Tune unit which doesn't have preset curves but allows you to set it up on a laptop. If there is a connector (under a cover) for a USB cable on the side of the distributor close to where the wires come out then you do have a Tune unit. I assume that the timing mark appeared to move clockwise as RPM advanced instead of anticlockwise because you are looking at the rear of the pulley. Easy to get lost when lying on the ground! Later cars moved the timing marks to the top of the timing case so much easier as long as you have a powerful timing light. It would be helpful if you could record the advance at every 500 RPM from and including 1000rpm up to 4000 rpm and report back. (Every 1000 rpm if this is too onerous) We can then establish how this aligns with the original spec and the published 123 curves. (Again disconnect and plug the vacuum advance pipe) Just turn the dial on the timing light to align with the TDC pointer and read off the advance. Please can you also confirm the idle RPM when at normal running temperature. (Blip the throttle first for 10 seconds if it has been idling to get a better reading). Apart from the fast idle are there any flat spots or pinging under load noticeable? It could well be that the ignition has been set up properly by the previous owner(s), worth checking out though as wrong timing and weak mixtures are engine killers. regards David Bought myself a timing lamp and hooked it up this evening. The picture shows what I think are quite ragged looking timing marks or at least not at all like those in the manuals. Just to give you the geography the green paint is the bottom of the radiator housing. At idle the mark was close to the pointer at the back (on the left) which I am guessing is 0 degrees. Trying to align to this with the dial gave me about 3BTDC and increasing the revs saw the timing marks move clockwise way from the timing marks. I wasn't expecting this and as you can probably tell I don't really know what I am doing. Nick
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