Engine Mountings in Australia

[dave1800]

I have read in the LOCA magazines that the Australian landcrabs were fitted with 4 engine mountings instead of the 3 on UK cars in order to deal with the then (and now?) harsher road conditions. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any good photos of them. If I manage to get the car here in Thailand I noticed that the single large mounting has been replaced by something that looks likely to break first time out. The roads here are a mixture ranging from excellent to looking like military testing grounds. You can be travelling along a smooth dual carriageway and go round a corner to find the road non existent for the next few miles. It certainly slows down the Mercs and most other cars that now have such low front skirts! The bottom line is that I will need to source strong engine mountings.

I have looked at the "Cope" system in the UK but wonder if the Australian system is still readily available and if anyone has details - and if it works well!

Thanks

David

[crabmaster]

Yes, the Australian mountings are different: Even the "front ones" near the radiator are longer (with more rubber) than the ones I have seen from UK. When I spoke to the Australian development engineer who was repsonsible for the "Australianisation" of the car, he said that the engine mounts were a stand-out item for replacement before it could ever be sold here. Indeed, in one internal report I've seen, the Engineering Department described their work on the 1800 as having avoided a "debacle" if it had just been released as is from UK. No doubt this is a reference to the harsher conditions to be encountered. We certainly don't have English country lanes to motor along in Australia.

Now, to the rear mounts (clutch end), they are extremely difficult to come by. Most of them have split and gone hard since they are loaded in pure shear.There was a place that re-rubbered them a few years ago but the fellow who did that work will not make any more since it is uneconomic. However, all is not lost. There is a completely new set available on Gumtree at www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/seaford/engine-engine-parts-transmission/austin-1800-engine-mounting-kit-inc-both-mounts-plates-1967-on/1001678570 for a mere $600! THey have been there for over a year unsold so there's your chance if you would like to go that way.

Tony

[dave1800]

Wow! They're asking A$660 (circa £390) for the mountings plus a further A$220 for the shock absorber - and they note they are reduced by $A100! What do you guys do if you need new mountings? It should be able to fabricate something using mountings from another vehicle, I believe there was a conversion using still available early Land Rover parts but cannot find the details. I certainly hadn't budgeted for this kind of expense on just one of the engine mountings!

I don't really understand why with suitable brackets these mountings could not be used in compression instead of shear? The Australian design as in the Gumtree photo is clearly stronger but still loading in shear with inevitable results if (when) they fail.

David

Nov 2, 2013 5:52:10 GMT crabmaster said:

Yes, the Australian mountings are different: Even the "front ones" near the radiator are longer (with more rubber) than the ones I have seen from UK. When I spoke to the Australian development engineer who was repsonsible for the "Australianisation" of the car, he said that the engine mounts were a stand-out item for replacement before it could ever be sold here. Indeed, in one internal report I've seen, the Engineering Department described their work on the 1800 as having avoided a "debacle" if it had just been released as is from UK. No doubt this is a reference to the harsher conditions to be encountered. We certainly don't have English country lanes to motor along in Australia.

Now, to the rear mounts (clutch end), they are extremely difficult to come by. Most of them have split and gone hard since they are loaded in pure shear.There was a place that re-rubbered them a few years ago but the fellow who did that work will not make any more since it is uneconomic. However, all is not lost. There is a completely new set available on Gumtree at www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/seaford/engine-engine-parts-transmission/austin-1800-engine-mounting-kit-inc-both-mounts-plates-1967-on/1001678570 for a mere $600! THey have been there for over a year unsold so there's your chance if you would like to go that way.

Tony

[crabmaster]

As you can see, "Bernie" from Victoria is encountering some price resistance on those mountings but eventually someone will buy them. He certainly has done a good job on the advertisement in beating up the product to make them sound a fantastic buy. The re-reubbered ones were just over $100 each from memory, but no longer available. Various owners have modified the system to have a vertical loading and the newsletters might have an article from Herb about this. It is also interesting to know that originally, a few cars came with the English style single mount and a sheet of asbestos was inserted between the mounting and the block to reduce the heat load on the joint. Then, when the outrigger mounts were installed, those earlier cars were recalled for replacement with the new style.

Tony

[dave1800]

Thanks Tony

I've now found Herb's article in the 2005 LOCA magazine(unnumbered page6) which shows a suggested modification but relies on the original mounting being intact even if not 100% perfect. (You will need to become a member of Tony's website to download and view the article LOCA mags.) It may be a worthwhile and inexpensive mod for all UK cars to overcome the inherent design weakness.


I agree the advert is very well written and enticing, I'm just trying to get over the price shock .

David

Nov 2, 2013 6:57:10 GMT crabmaster said:

As you can see, "Bernie" from Victoria is encountering some price resistance on those mountings but eventually someone will buy them. He certainly has done a good job on the advertisement in beating up the product to make them sound a fantastic buy. The re-reubbered ones were just over $100 each from memory, but no longer available. Various owners have modified the system to have a vertical loading and the newsletters might have an article from Herb about this. It is also interesting to know that originally, a few cars came with the English style single mount and a sheet of asbestos was inserted between the mounting and the block to reduce the heat load on the joint. Then, when the outrigger mounts were installed, those earlier cars were recalled for replacement with the new style.

Tony

[Penguin45]

Paul's got the "dumb-bell" in his car:



I've got the Land Rover derived one:



Seems pretty robust - no problems so far.

Chris.

[Penguin45]

Hmm - re-read the advert properly. The front and rear mounts are "the same price", so that's another A$600 odd. Bit steep......

Chris.

[crabmaster]

Plus, the engine shock absorber is most certainly not a Tokico product. You can buy Tokico ones (for after market fitment to most cars but usually sold to owners of nissan's and honda's) for about $100. The original Austin unit was made by Girling as far as I can tell. I wrote to Bernie in May 2012 and offered him $200 but he declined.

Tony

[Penguin45]

Yup, Girling 4600. Given that it barely moves, it's also extremely unlikely to wear out.

Chris.

[dave1800]

Doesn't the dumb-bell transmit a lot of vibration? I used an Austin 1800S upper tie-rod to good effect but it quite wasn't so smooth. [EDIT: Now I realise that the dumb-bell IS the 1800S upper tie rod that I used. It was more than a quarter of a century since I sold the car so maybe I can be forgiven for not recognising it . Once fitted it certainly prevented a recurrence of the failure over the next 100K miles or so.


Not sure if I fully understand how your Land Rover derived version fits. Are the parts easy to locate?

Thanks

David

Nov 2, 2013 14:26:16 GMT Penguin45 said:

Paul's got the "dumb-bell" in his car:



I've got the Land Rover derived one:



Seems pretty robust - no problems so far.

Chris.

[Penguin45]

Nov 3, 2013 1:45:37 GMT dave1800 said:

Not sure if I fully understand how your Land Rover derived version fits. Are the parts easy to locate?

I put up a bit about the install HERE. The bracketry is probably indestructible, the blocks are the Land Rover engine mountings.

My "new" one has got the dumb bell engine mount like Paul's, btw. The rear mount doesn't look standard - not sure what's down there. Will try and get a picture over the next few days.

Chris.

[dave1800]

Thanks. I should have used the "search" facility. I just looked under technical and found Tommy's plea for help. It appears we have two headings for engine mountings. Maybe worth trying to merge them if you have a back-up.


Is that dumb-bell the additional "S" stabiliser or something else?


David

Nov 12, 2013 0:28:37 GMT Penguin45 said:

Nov 3, 2013 1:45:37 GMT dave1800 said:

Not sure if I fully understand how your Land Rover derived version fits. Are the parts easy to locate?

I put up a bit about the install HERE. The bracketry is probably indestructible, the blocks are the Land Rover engine mountings.

My "new" one has got the dumb bell engine mount like Paul's, btw. The rear mount doesn't look standard - not sure what's down there. Will try and get a picture over the next few days.

Chris.